Of Justin buying the life insurance policy?
Of Trista filing for custody right before Ayla went missing?
Of Courtney's sister being busted for drugs?
Of Lance DiPietro beating up Justin Linnell?
Of the blood evidence being released, but police declining to say the amount?
Just wondering where you all think these things fit in, if at all....are some of these things red herrings? Coincidences? Proof of more going on? Proof of premeditation? Feel free to share!
*Note* Every answer or comment on this will likely be speculation. If that will offend or upset you, please do not entertain this particular post!
Who in DHHS did Trista file custody papers with ? Is this with somebody who she had already worked with at DHHS and who knew about the custody battle ? Where is this person she filed papers with now ? Still working with DHHS ? Or is this the person who is rumored to have suddently left for a long leave at the time of Ayla's disappearance ?
ReplyDeleteI don't think custody would go through DHHS; it seems like a court would have to get involved.
DeleteThank you seeking Truth, I was just wondering if that woman from DHHS suddenly taking a long leave at the time of Ayla's disappearance was just coincidental, it would be interesting to know if she had contact with Trista and knew Ayla, some of them even visit the houses. I mean, at this point, everything is worth considering.
DeleteI honestly hadn't heard of anyone taking leave from DHHS, so thank you!
DeleteI would be interesting to know if she notified the DHHS worker anyway that she was filing papers for custody and if this is the same one that took a long leave.
DeleteSome women who didn't have children would do anything to have one.
DeleteThe worker taking a leave is a rumor that was reported by This little light of Maine.
DeleteWell, let's check it, there have been rumors all over the place no ? Most of them not founded, some of them founded on true facts maybe ? Why not check ? Isn't it worth checking on everything and everybody when a baby is missing ?
DeleteThat rumor could be true.
DeleteAnon 05.01pm, the rumor of a DHHS worker taking a long leave at the time of Ayla's disappearance was talked about long before the creation of TLLM. And I think it is true, not meaning that it could not be coincidental though, but, what if it is not ?
Delete1. The LIP: Premeditation of her death by preparing to say she was kidnapped and texting Trista his concern of Ayla being kidnapped.
ReplyDelete2. Trista Filing: She wanted custody of her daughter. Makes sense to me.
3. Brianna's arrest: It puts Justin, Courtney and their kids in close proximity with a drug dealer. Didn't CR live with her sister? Didn't J live across the street? Drugs and kids don't mix. Ever.
4. Lance's attack. It just proves the Dips are violent people and their actions and family comments support their violence. Was it really that important to protect his family from comments Linnell made especially when Linnell looks like a ten year old compared to the oversized ape of Lance.
5. The blood. To encourage the Dips to come clean. Instead, they stayed in hiding.
5.
I get that she wanted custody, I'm asking is the TIMING coincidental. Thanks for posting by the way!
DeleteIt's coincidental only that the dips had to report her missing because they wouldn't be able to produce her as she was already gone.
DeleteI don't think the TIMING is necessarily coincidental, because I think Ayla was missing before Justin called in the fake kidnapping. Until Ayla is found and there is an autopsy, we won't have a time of death. LE can make a legit timeline once they have that information. Oh, and you're welcome for my post. Your original question does not ask about the coincidence of TIMING.
DeleteWell you said "she wanted custody of her daughter. Makes sense to me." That was enlightening...::sarcasm::
DeleteShe could have filed for custody of her daughter since the day she got out of rehab. Why wait two months, and then it just so happens that a day later the kid is missing? Again, Justin supposedly didn't know she filed.
Who can know this? It does make sense to me that she filed. You would have to ask her directly why she chose that time. And to be clear, Justin reported her kidnapped a day later which does not mean she wasn't gone already. Justin reported her kidnapped, but LE said there was no kidnap in the home. FBI came the day of the call and they specialize in kidnap and even they left. LE says the Dips aren't telling all they know, so just because Justin was forced to call LE about a fake kidnap, my question, is why did HE chose that day to call? She could have been gone for days by that point. Jeez Seeking, you're getting awfully huffy today. What happened to your calm, cool and collected stance for gathering information?
DeleteThere's NO proof Justin didn't know about Trista's filing. The ONLY coincidence in the timing is that once Trista filed for custody, he could no longer pretend Ayla was sleeping, or playing, and that triggered the "kidnap" report.
DeleteThere are several witnesses, including some outside family and friends who have stated they saw Ayla the day before she disappeared.
DeleteGood point Anon 2:53. That sounds much closer to the truth than Justin calling in a false kidnap report.
DeleteI mean Anon 3:53.
DeleteAt Anon 3:55, can you please share the link of the proof of these friends and family members stating they saw Ayla the day before Justin called in the kidnapping?
Ask LE, they know
DeleteAnon 3:58, some people will say anything for a price .... or even their next fix. Funny how the "several" witnesses are such a secret and known only to the dips....
DeleteIf they really thought Ayla had been kidnapped and wanted her back, they'd be following up those leads with a vengeance.
One problem I have with Trista filing is, early on when she was asked about filing she said this---
DeleteShe told HLN she didn't tell Dipietro she was going to court because he was "vindictive" and "verbally abusive."
"Now, me and him had had the discussion within that week that he told me himself that he was going to file the custody papers against me," Reynolds said. "So I decided to go and file against him."
So she wasn't really filing out of concerns for Ayla but instead filing just because Justin said he was.
LE does not say there was no kidnapping in the home they say "it does not pass the straight face test" does not mean there was not one. They say they are not convinced of it. Does not mean they are not convinced there was not one either. They are very careful with their wording with good reason.
DeleteAnon 12:42 the witnesses are known to LE. And who would be following up leads with a vengeance LE? or family? Because I believe both are. Do you somehow doubt that? And if so what proof of that do you actually have?
DeleteThe Dips reported Ayla missing when they did because they knew Trista would get her. Justin refused to let Ayla speak withher mother on December 8th, now why is that? Could it be she was gone already? If she was, then why did Justin wait another 9 days to report her missing? He is a lying POS and should have been arrested already.
DeleteOne of those facts alone would be a coincidence. These 5 facts add up to WAY MORE then a coincidence. It just seems that all things keep pointing at the DiPs. The police told us who they believe is involved in Ayla's disappearance!! The DiP supporters just don't want to see it. The police SAID they 3 adults in that house are not telling everything they know and what they have told the police "doesn't pass the straight face test." What else do they need to say, besides the DiPs are involved, before people open their damn eyes and see what the caps are saying??? HELLLOOOO???
ReplyDeleteWell, I didn't know the "straight-face test" was an official law enforcement standard.
Delete& the fact that Trista filed custody factors in, even though Justin didn't know about it? Wondering what your take is on that fact separately?
Who says Justin didn't know about it? Maybe Pheebs did have a pal in DSS that alerted the Dips about the filing. That does not mean, that Ayla wasn't already missing. Since the Dips can't tell the truth about anything (when ayla goes missing, the bumps, the limp, the bruising, the ball pit, Pheeb's big lie, falling on Ayla on a rainy night that wasn't raining, passing the lie detector test, etc.) all the public can do is speculate. One Ayla is found however, and the arrests are made, we will ALL KNOW the truth. Even the identity of you.
DeleteI was wondering about there possibly being someone that was feeding information to the DiPietro family. Both Aylas' disappearance and the "beat down" of Justin L occured less than 24 hours after Trista and Justin L filed custody papers. In each instance by itself, coincidence. When both are looked at together, not so coincidental. Just a thought!
DeleteThere is no PROOF of there being someone feeding info, but it sure looks like someone had an insider feeding information.
John what is going on? You sound like the blog owner. You change your mind every day? Realy people? Head games over Ayla?
DeleteVERY GOOD POINT JOHN!!!! BOTH ISSUES WOULD BE BASED OUT OF FAMILY COURT NO? STILL, THAT FITS IN WITH JDIP HAVING TO SUDDENLY CALL ABOUT A KIDNAP
DeleteThe police said that Justin didn't know about the filing.
DeleteWhere? Please post the news article. TY
DeleteNot a blog owner, thankfully! I simply engage people in conversations and try to debunk theories for what they are, viable and logical thought processes or concocted illogical male bovine fecal matter (borrowed a line from Lemon, sorry). If you are the same anon from last night on SA you know I prefer to have logical debates then whinning contests. I tend have more logical debates without throughing insults like the anon below.
DeleteAnon 5:04. Stephen mccausland was asked if Justin knew about the custody filing on Nancy Grace. I'm sorry I don't have a link. Maybe there is video on the hln website
DeleteDid DHHS know about the filing ?
DeleteTrista stated very clearly and vehemently that no one new she was filing for parental rights (which Nancy Grace wrongly exaggerated as "fighting for full custody") the day before Ayla was abducted/went missing- and that she had not told anyone. I have that interview taped but am sure it can be found online.
DeleteI meant "knew".
DeleteShe had told none, so how did she file her custody papers ?
DeleteTrista filing for full custody is a no brainer.
DeleteShe wanted her breeder's paycheck, one baby doesn't pay enough, two is better.
Successful welfare mothers in Maine have more than one child.
Is there anyone who could do a financial run down on Trista's exact benefits received per month with one child vs two?
How much did Trista receive from Justin and the State combined per month?
How much less did Trista get without Ayla?
How much money and benefits does Trista collect every month?
Did Trista not bother to go get Ayla on the 22nd of October because without the incentive of child support moolah, she didn't want her? OUCH.
Ask yourself: how did Trista become a 'substance abuser' when she had no job or money to pay for her 'substances'?
"Substances" aren't free and Trista consumed enough to become addicted to the point of police involvement, loss of child custody and mandated rehab if she wanted her little paychecks to continue.
When asked by the press why Trista entered rehab her sister, Debbie Reynolds answered "mainly alcohol" which means drugs as well.
Trista HAD to have cashed in food stamps or used child support funds to pay for her likker and drugs, she has NO other income!
Did the boozy drug fairy leave her substance abuse funds under her pillow at night?
It is also possible to acquire drugs and booze through barter with free sex as the currency. *shudder.
Before the Trista fan club lunatics frantically type a screaming nonsensical damage control response attacking the commenter rather than simply addressing the issues, at least include in your cyber bullying an explanation HOW Trista managed to get 'hooked' on alcohol and drugs without ANY money to buy these 'substances'?
TIA! Tick Tock...we're waiting!
Trista did NOT stand a good chance of getting full custody which gives her every motive to abduct Ayla. Given her considerable mental health problems, (enhanced with the abuse of drugs and alcohol) and her continued outraged insistence that she will not 'share' Ayla with anyone, (not even 'virtually' with the bloggers trying to HELP her!), she might have decided if she can't have Ayla, then no one would.
She also might have sold Ayla for profit or spite.
Why WOULD the State continue to pay for lodging at an expensive hotel for Ayla when she had a perfectly nice home in a house with her paternal family? Tax payers win, Ayla wins. If full custody was in dispute, surely Justin with a home to offer Ayla would win?
It is repeated over and over, "Why would Trista take Ayla when all she had to do was go get her?"
Perhaps when Trista failed to 'go get her' on October 22nd, she lost her window of opportunity. Also, not collecting Ayla on the 22nd, shows that Trista wasn't really in such a big hurry to take custody after all and implies that Trista had no concerns for Ayla's well being in Waterville despite later protestations to the contrary.
I dispute the notion that 'all Trista had to do was go get her'. Her continued custody of her other child is only due to the fact that his father is incarcerated and custody appears to be undisputed.
It looks like Trista will have to scrape by with a reduced paycheck but in bizarre, stark contrast to all grieving mothers, she still 'puts a smile on her face everyday' and bravely carries onward!
Please don't say it's a little odd that she does not shed a single tear in her latest tv interview; she is more concerned with being angry at hurtful online comments. That must mean Trista can afford a computer and internet service and has the free time to monitor blogs online. Sweeet!
She is reported to be 'incapable of telling a lie'. Surely, such a marvelously unique talent could be translated into some well paid career?
The people claiming 'all they want is Ayla returned safe and sound' are ironically the most vociferous opponents to an abduction theory. Go figure.
John P,
DeleteI have noted that too and wonder if there is a civil rights violation in there somewhere. If someone on the inside at the court is feeding information out to a family about court filings that can be expected to result in retaliation against the filers, this suddenly becomes a very different case. Not saying it happened, but with a 2-2 record, you do have to wonder
anon mar 7, 5:51am I have the same thoughts, as I'm sure others do. Thanks for posting this. There is just something not right. I hope LE is actively pursuing everyone, and not just Justin. If either parent is responsible, Trista (IMO) is the one with a motive.
DeleteWhy was she so adamant that Justin knew nothing about her filing for custody?
Why did Ayla disappear the day after she filed? Was that a ploy on her part?
Why has Trista spent so much effort on pointing fingers at Justin, and now Jeff Hanson is also involved. Why is it that all we hear from them are contradictions, inconsistencies, lies, hearsay, and speculation. This is coming from Ayla's maternal family. How does that help Ayla? Why?
They appear to be saying, don't look this way, keep focused on Justin. Does Trista have something to hide? Does Trista know something!? Does her arsonist fiance have any part in this. He certainly has the criminal mind to help Trista. So did he plan on killing someone in the fire his mother and him started, or was he sending a "message" to someone, risking the lives of others, including children. This man is Trista's fiance (her words).
OT here, but I find it curiously interesting. When Trista/Jeff released the info about a LIP, an article appeared in a local newspaper with comments from insurance agents. One of the agents was John Fortier, in Waterville. Part of what he said was he had insurance on his children, and his father had a policy on him. He also stated, he does not sell policies for under $50,000! Oh, and he works for State Farm Insurance. Is he any relation to Trista's fiance? Google his name with Waterville, Maine and there is an article about a John M. Fortier and the police department. I have no idea if he is any relation to Trista's fiance!
As long as the home is safe they wont give custody to another parent just because the other parents home is better.
DeleteBut there is NO home. From what I understand, Trista would receive 'vouchers' that are redeemed at a hotel or motel? Does that somehow translate into 'home'?
DeleteAs a taxpayer, (just saying), if a child has a nice home to go to, why am I paying for a hotel room which is really and truly in my eyes a disgusting place to 'raise a child'?
Would the State really pay for Ayla to live in a sleezy drug motel chockablock with users and hookers and section 8s when she had a 'home' with the Dipietros on Violette Ave?
The more I hear about deadbeat parents in Maine, the more upset I am becoming!
Those sleazy motels are no place for children!
Anon 5:51... I try not to "bash" but I must say, that was beautifully tactful. That is not to say that I blame trista completely either; it cannot be ruled out!
DeleteSeeking, over at SA someone says they found out who you really are and that are related to the Dips. Any (seeking) TRUTH to it?
ReplyDeleteNO. I am in Texas for the 9,094,083 time. I do not know any of the DiPietros!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteCan we get back to the original context of this blog. If you want to challenge ST, it does Ayla alot more good if you challenge her with information of the case.
DeleteWhy challenge her with evidence of the case? The facts have been presented ad nauseam and they are ignored here and given a Dipietro-friendly spin. JOHN P, you are now showing your true colors. I will let Peter know. This blog was trying to make ATrista's stepfather a patsy. She has been revealed and you are now deflecting the attention from her. She has been a spreader of HATE and lies and her first couple of days were the most disgusting trash I have ever read. She "allegedly" saw the light after a private convo. Sure. This site has done nothing for Ayla or Trista. It has failed in attempting to circumvent and discredit the hard work of the MSP and FBI.
DeleteI copied all John's new posts. I'll put them up at SA.
DeleteJohn P if the blog owner is a relative of the Dips, then it becomes part of the story of Ayla. You don't think finding out that the blog owner may have lied of any interest to this case?
DeleteAnon 449
DeleteMake sure you go the comments above these and aste those ove onto SA as well.
Anon 443
I respect your comment because it is what you believe. I do feel anyone involved in the case is relevent. But let me ask you this, if you feel the information presented here is lies and deciet, wouldn't you want them tokeep talking so the MSP and FBI can have more evidence going into trial. By "outting" the blog owner, spins that may try to be usd by the defense later will now not be known. Please read my comment above at 5:06 PM and you will see what my true colors are. You are so intent on jumping anyone with a different approach or view to conversation, you just made me a none blogger. Hope you enjoy.
Anon 453 Agreed, if she lied it was of interest but how much more do you believe will be lied about from here out. The more said, the more that could have been used at trial in the future.
Anon 449 Dont forget to copy this post as well for you copy & paste over SA.
Wow, JohnP, you're being reported to Peter? For? Seemingly unsheeplike behavior? Seriously, what is going on over at SA?
DeleteAdmittedly I haven't studied SA, but it seems to presuppose that people all have the same personality, level of intellect, life experience, etc. Less than a month ago Peter posted a blog analyzing Patsy Ramsey's 911 call and coming to the scientific conclusion that she was a guilty caller. Never mind the fact that the Ramseys were cleared of any wrongdoing in 2008, 2 years after Patsy's death, after new technology was used with the evidence. Perhaps DNA testing isn't as scientific as SA.
John PMar 6, 2012 04:30 PM
DeleteJohn PMar 6, 2012 05:06 PM
Not a blog owner, thankfully! I simply engage people in conversations and try to debunk theories for what they are, viable and logical thought processes or concocted illogical male bovine fecal matter (borrowed a line from Lemon, sorry). If you are the same anon from last night on SA you know I prefer to have logical debates then whinning contests. I tend have more logical debates without throughing insults like the anon below.
Can we get back to the original context of this blog. If you want to challenge ST, it does Ayla alot more good if you challenge her with information of the case.
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Good enough JohnP. I like the way you think....for yourself. That is the attitude that will find AYLA.Thank you.
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DeleteAnon 416
DeleteYou realize this is the only blog where both Jeff H and Selena J have both spoken to the public. Knowing this, why are you trying to shut down this blog where we have been graciously provided insight by both families?
Wrong. They both speak in SA.
DeleteI had seen several messages from Selena, but I haven't seen Jeff posting there.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteOhhhh anon @ 4.16
DeleteSounds like another freak from the SA site. They KNOW everything over there. Has the great big pimp pete got you trolling yourself about town. Go stand on a different corner, nobody here is interested.
John P. , this blog is an abomination to Ayla. It needs to be shut down out of respect for Ayla. Why are you so intent in defending this blog?? Who are you John P?????
DeleteMy first and last names have been all over this blog and a couple others as well. I have never hiden my name like some others. Why don't you post your name if you believe so deeply in what you are doing. I am not defending the blog, my intent is very clear in my previous posts. As I stated, I am sure MSP and FBI agents are tracking all these sites. Any rational conversation will no longer take place on site site now that you have turned it into a school of sharks in the middle of a feeding frenzy. If you were so intent on believing this site was nothing but lies, why would you not let it go thus giving that much more fire for the MSP and FBI when they do finally file charges. Logical conversation vs. foot in mouth!
DeleteBTW Don't forget to tell anon above you to copy paste this post over on SA as well. Before he does, maybe he should display his name as well!
Aunt Barbra...If this was Aunt Barbra she would have been all over you about swearing and cursing...me too...I love you Auntie...I dont know who owns this sight but if you were paying attention on other threads you would know that it is highly unlikely that Seeking is male...because its impossible to be a "wife"... He is married and has kids...Thats just off the top of my head.
Deleteis female
Delete*hangs her head in humility* I hate being crazy and uneducated...oh and drunk.* walks away hoping her memory has served her right*
DeleteSelena,
Deleteas a relative of Ayla's, it should be imperative that Lies be called out and stopped. She insulted and besmirched sweet Ayla. Anyone that loves Ayla should want LIES stopped.
Selena isn't as close to the family as she would like people to believe.
DeleteWhat's the Importance...
ReplyDeleteOf Justin buying the life insurance policy?
My Answer: Unrelated to Ayla's disappearance. Justin talked into it by a good sales pitch.
Of Trista filing for custody right before Ayla went missing?
My Answer: I think coincidence. Why she waited so long is a good question.
Of Courtney's sister being busted for drugs?
My Answer: Absolutely no connection. It's likely Courtney didn't even know her sister was doing this. In fact, her sister may have been holding the drugs for someone else. Still a felony on her though.
Of Lance DiPietro beating up Justin Linnell?
My Answer: I can't condone violence except in rare occasions such as self defense. Lance was wrong, period. However, I sense that little scrawny Justin Linnell could use a good spankin.
Of the blood evidence being released, but police declining to say the amount?
My Answer: It annoys me that they did this. I don't know why they would leak this to Trista. I think the amount was small; otherwise I think there would have been an arrest if blood was 'splattered' all over the wall. More than a small cut? Well, what's a small cut? Maybe it was a medium cut. Maybe it was a nose bleed. I hate that the police did this because it just fueled the fire of anger in those that already suspected the DiPietro's. Would the police want to do this; i.e. get the public in an uproar hating on the DiPietro's? If so, I think that is wrong, very wrong.
I just wish people on these blogs and forums wouldn't repeat the same things over and over (the arm, the straight faced test, "they aren't telling us all they know", etc. etc. Give it a rest, we all know the details.
And who the heck cares who Seeking Truth is or anyone else for that matter.
Courtney lived with Brianna so how does she not know sis has 1000 oxy?
DeleteListen up, innocent one (anon at 4:36). Do you know that there are married women that have been married for decades that find their husbands dead from some sado-masochistic act. There are women that live with their husbands for years only to find that their husband is a serial killer. The facts are out there! I can tell you this right now. I could easily pull off something like drug peddling and my husband would not know a thing.
DeleteVoiceof(gag)Reason,
DeleteWhen pigs fly, do you think they will have wing, or just use their ears?
You speak of very sick individuals. Are you accusing Brianna of being the equivelent of a sado-masochist or a serial killer, or both?
DeleteAnd I believe you could pull of drug peddling and that you can easily lie (to your husband).
Do you realize how dumb you sound voice of reason? The chances that Courtney didn't know her sister was dealing drugs is zero to none. Get real, they live together in a small apartment. Of course, Courtney knows what goes on and she's probably a big part of it too. She chose to keep her son in a drug house. You sound like the "voice of Justin"
DeleteThe neighbors knew what was going on because of the constant traffic, I believe the neighbors are the ones who turned them into the cops, so how could Courtney and Justin have missed all of the in and out drug traffic? They didn't. Courtney (and Justin) knew exactly what was going on in that apartment. They were part of it and totally ok with it. Courtney was totally ok with having her son live in a drug dealing house.
DeleteCourtney does not live with her sister she has her own apartment.
DeleteIts possible to live with a drug dealer and not know. My ex boyfriend sold prescription pills and I never knew. I lived with him for a year and when we broke up is when I found out what he had been doing. I wasnt at our home very much as I was putting myself through nursing school and I worked. He never did the drugs and he was smart enough to tell people to only contact him during certain times. After we broke up I heard from loads of people about how they had been in my house etc...Its unerving to think it can happen but it can.....if people are careful
DeleteWOW, it would be even sicker if lies blogger was a relative of Ayla's. How shameful and disgusting!!
ReplyDeleteLife insurance ~ No job, going to school, lives at moms ~ No means to pay for life insurance so how and why?
ReplyDeleteCustody filing ~ If she had not been allowed to speak with Ayla on the phone after numerouse tries she finally did what she had to do.
Drug bust ~ if referance to an above statement ~ If a family member (and who lives across the street) is selling and doing drugs believe me someone knows about it. Holding the drugs fro someone else? Wow! that is the oldest excuse in the book. Would you hold drugs for someone? Ha ha
Lance beating up Justin L. ~ Does this reflect on other famly members? Possibly.
Blood evidence ~ I do not think the police would disclose this unless it had strong bearing on the case especially along with a statement saying the believe foul play was involved and that it was not an abduction. Nose bleed? medium cut? large cut? Furhter testing (and I think this is what is happpening) can potentially show what part of the body the blood came from by looking at epithial cell tissue ~ IE the nose etc.
All of these together does not look good ~ could there have been an accident ~ did Justins family hate Trista allready and did not want to give Ayla back just out of spite so staged it all ~ Did trista or tristas family have anything to do with tho the FBI says no abduction ~ how did they come to this conclussion? Blood evidence? Or was it drug related? Like the case recently where the deceased was said to have made numerous trips to Maine harrassing and threatening people to collect his drug money owed to him? Hmmm I'm hoping they have her hiding somewhere..but it does notlook good.
Life insurance- I hold life insurance on my children maybe he was just being responsible
ReplyDeleteCustody- NOT A DAMN THING Maine you cannot file for parental rights and responsibly without notifying the other parties ie dad that you did before you can file the paper work. It goes Pick up the paperwork from the court house fill them out send a copy to the other party file the paper work proven that you sent the copy to the other party wait a few weeks and get a court date.. Im assuming Trista went and picked up the paperwork that day. maybe they changed a bit in the 8 years that I did it but im pretty sure it has the same ring to it.
Drug bust- I don't think anything Both parents are around and do drugs. Can't be responsible for what someones siblings do
Lance- I would have probably done it myself
Blood- Its a tricky one how much blood was found was it old or fairly new? More than a small cut would produce is not really an answer because if you clean up blood its everywhere and Im sure if you look around my house I have blood cleaned up everywhere.
Sooo Y
my perspective:
ReplyDeletelife insurance-Red herring. Wasn't Justin going for his CDL? Sounds like a legit way to make money-no need to turn to murder. If he was plotting to kill for the insurance payout, seems like he'd know there has to be a body unless you plan to wait for years.
custody filing-Trista said in an interview that she filed because Justin told her he was filing. If that's true, doesn't it make Trista's filing irrelevant? Either way, the two were going to end up in court.
drug bust-shows a connection to shady people. EVERYONE in this case is connected to shady people.
Lance's fight-shows violence. Only important if Lance was in the home when Ayla went missing. If lance wasn't present, it's no more relevant that Trista's drunken fight with her sister.
blood-highly disturbing. Seems to me that a large quantity would've resulted in an arrest already, but maybe not. Obvious police tactic, but not a clue who or what they are trying to flush out.
Putting aside the negatives I'm going to assume everything from an innocent perspective: I'm not saying that this is what I necessarily believe but its an opinion from a "coincidental" perspective.
ReplyDelete1. IP taken in the first week of having Ayla could be that JP planned on being a responsible parent to his child.
2. In the timeline a neighbor reported seeing Ayla the day before she was reported missing and that an unfamiliar car was seen in the driveway late that night. I have no idea if that car is related to TR, JD, JL, or a stranger. But if you look at the custody papers filed, one could potentially assume that it would be Trista (sorry Trista) or someone that Trista knows to take Ayla back. Perhaps abduction wasn't the initial plan but opportunity presented itself in the form of an unlocked door.
3. My sister was a drug addict and I knew about it. My knowing didn't mean that I endorsed her habit and it certainly didn't mean I shared in her lifestyle. I still loved her while she was an addict though as that what unconditional love is. I imagine CR feels the same about her sister.
4. LD beating JL up looks to be as if it wasn't only about JD being accused of disposing of Ayla but also about ED and her daughter. JL had been making threats to ED publicly and so LD felt the need to protect his little sister and niece.
5. LE releasing information about the blood but not saying how much could be hopeful that someone else might know how the injury occured. My mother witnessed a crime and didn't report it till she saw it in the paper. She exclaimed to the officer that the details in the paper were completely different to what she saw. This is a technique used to determine the difference between those who a truthful, mistaken, or out-right lying.
Of course, regarding the above information, if you add it up in a sinister fashion then you will get a completely different story but with the same plot but most have already covered that angle.
I want to add that if Justin had taken out insurance with the intent of murdering his child, then he made a big mistake the night the injury occurred to her arm. Surely Justin would know that should she disappear with injuries it would only secure his being the main suspect. He should also know that blood being found on the property definitely make him suspect no.1.
ReplyDeleteTaking out insurance however doesn't secure his guilt - is it known whether or not he tried claiming? If he had then I would say that people should definitely be concerned. If I were to take out an insurance with an intent to murder, then it would be for a lot more than $25,000. $25,000 hardly covers any debt these days. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though: just another perspective.
If Ayla were an adult people would not have any difficulty linking LIP to her death. You're right, it doesn't secure Justin's guilt. But in the context of the series of events that have happened, the probability of these events all being completely innocent is slim to none. Justin would have a better chance of winning the lottery.
DeleteLE said no abduction,If there was no abduction what were the oddities at the house? Who made it look like a kidnapping? Would insurance pay if they made it look like a kidnapper hurt her? I thought insurance was doubled for an accidental death.50,000
DeleteOuch...you should have your claws removed! Misspelling my name doesn't bother me either but then at least I have one - I don't hide behind a veil like you. Maybe I am stupid but I'd rather be stupid than spiteful. Didn't your mother teach you that if you have nothing nice to say....
DeleteOf Justin buying the life insurance policy? $25,000 policy, $1 million question; it could be the motive, or it could be coincidence
ReplyDeleteOf Trista filing for custody right before Ayla went missing? irrelevant; and I think the question should say before she was reported missing because many people think she actually went missing earlier than Dec. 16-17
Of Courtney's sister being busted for drugs? Another hard to say but my guess is police were onto her and working on this for awhile before the arrest and the timing may have been affected by the Ayla investigation but I doubt her drug arrest is directly related
Of Lance DiPietro beating up Justin Linnell? Indirect relationship. People including him apparently were saying Elisha should not have custody of Gabby due to what happened to Ayla
Of the blood evidence being released, but police declining to say the amount? Could be posturing, could be a lure, could be they didn't know since testing was still underway on some of the blood and didn't want to disclose the amount based on partial results
What's the importance of finding out who JSTL blogger is?
ReplyDeleteFor Ayla, that's why.
Its not for Ayla. Its for you!!! Ayla has no interest in ST but she does have an interest in being found.
Deletewell said! (anon 11:54pm)
DeleteVoice of Reason, on the blood, the police have to have a "who" to arrest. There were three people in the house when the police came to investigate. There is blood in the house. The blood might have been in the house from a different occasion when there were different people in the house. Even if the blood were enough to prove Ayla were dead, who would you suggest the police arrest and on what theory?
ReplyDeleteLife insurance policy: coincidence... Justin's best friend had recently started selling insurance and may have asked Justin to help him out, or Justin may have offered, and perhaps a life insurance policy on a baby is the cheapest thing that can be purchased.
ReplyDeleteTrista filing the day before: seems too coincidental... when putting this with the information that he'd been texting her in the days prior, and the suggestion of some that Ayla may have been missing prior to that, I wondered if perhaps he thought Trista took her before that and was fishing for the truth via the texts instead of asking outright, and then realized she didn't have her. Purely speculation on my part... not sure I buy it myself.
Courtney's sister: potentially a connection; however, who knows how many people on either side could have that happen. Unsettling to think that Courtney was living in that environment with a baby.
Lance assaulting Linnell: seems there's been a long history of interpersonal troubles between the families, at least sometime since Gabby was born... Linnell probably did say things, but it was not wise for Lance to resort to violence, especially when Justin D. was driving the vehicle. Nor for Lance to say "he fell and his face hit my boot" nor for Justin to say he saw nothing and had no idea what happened.
Blood evidence (partially) cleaned up: I found this shocking when I first heard it, but find it more and more confusing as time goes by with no further word about it from LE (how long it was there, how much, etc). I have wondered why no one in the family has related how it got there. I have also wondered about LE's statement that Justin quickly left the room when shown the blood evidence... does that mean he knows what happened and can't face it? or does that mean they showed him something he knew nothing about and it freaked him out? Or?
you just made me think of something about the texts. Didn't Trista say that Justin was always worried about someone taking Ayla? Not just immediately prior to Ayla's disappearance, but long before that? trying to remember where i heard/read that
DeleteIt's not midnight yet, Cinderalla.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY NO NAMES!?
DeleteThere's a lot of people who aren't going to stop until the TRUTH is exposed about who you are and what you do.
DeleteBesides, you said you would let your name stand, although I doubt very much you are a person of your word.
Karma's gonna get you, evil witch!
My name will stand, once it is posted. Why does who I am matter when it comes to FINDING AYLA? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
DeleteI know who you are but at this point I don't think it really matters. If I thought you were directly involved somehow that would be differant. All the comments would be focused on you instead of Ayla. Even tho a percentage of people dislike you I am not sure of the need for anyonee to know who you are .
DeleteFor the sake of Ayla and her sweet innocent name it matters very much.
ReplyDeleteYou could care less about finding Ayla.
You are the one who will not have your cake and eat it too.
Karma, witch, wait and see...
Okay, and once it is revealed that I have nothing to lose by writing this blog---and nothing to gain---then what?
DeleteI guess that will be my "karma" huh? I already know when something happens to me, not to ask why. For example, today, I kept eating and could not get full. No matter what, my stomach felt painfully empty. I didn't ask "why me?" because I know I've done things in my life to deserve that and worse.
WE ALL HAVE. Karma doesn't discriminate.
Oh you do have a lot to lose. Your reputation, everyone will know the TRUE YOU, and that's really really UGLY, Who is going to want to know a ruthless cruel person like you? Who will want to work or associate with YOU? You have lots to lose, certainly nothing to gain.
DeleteOh don't be a fool Lies, Karma totally discriminates, and your coming Karma is going to be harsh, very harsh. Messing with an innocent baby is not cool.
I guarantee my reputation at work is worse than my reputation on line. LOL
DeleteMy family and close friends know about this blog. I'll be fine, it's not the first time my online identity has crashed over into real life!! :)
LOL? You really are sick. Your family and friends are okay with what you are? That's sick! You'll be fine? No, you are not fine. You are sick, you use a missing baby as a joke and a game.
DeleteIf you have nothing to lose or gain and if everyone is so cool with your ugliness, then why not post your name yourself?
I find it hard to believe that your family and close friends know the REAL YOU. If they did, they would run away ashamed and embarrassed to ever have know you. You are a disgrace.
Because posting my name would be an even bigger distraction...ask the other bloggers...
DeleteSo Lies it sounds like you've played games, and probably ugly games also, online in addition to the exploitation of Ayla.
DeleteHow could your reputation at work be worse than here? That's impossible, your reputation here could not go any lower. I doubt anyone would want to employ you or work with you if the truth were known. People don't like cold compassion-less users and instigators who think nothing of using an innocent missing baby for laughs.
I really don't understand how anyone could say I did this for laughs. That's just asinine. Because I don't agree with the majority, then I am somehow exploiting a baby? Then you're complicit. This blog gets about 16k views PER DAY. Why? Why visit a blog that's so detrimental to finding a missing baby? Is there something wrong with ME, or something wrong with people who view, comment, or feed into what I say? This blog has done a lot for keeping the discussion going, and really, that's all that SHOULD matter to you.
DeleteYou're upset because you think I support Justin and the DiPietros. End of story. That's the only reason I'm "an insult to Ayla." I have not said one bad word about her.
What you're trying to do is honorable in your own mind, I guess, but it won't work. I know the risks of starting a blog like this. I fully understand the ramifications of being "outed" and there are few. I could have easily have closed this blog the first few days. I chose not to. Any ramification that stems from this will have to be weighed against my first amendment rights to free speech. :) Or, I will be getting PAID. Got it?
Well said. These speculstors have gone off the deep end.
Deletewow LIES, you really don't see what you do. As for me, it has nothing to do with your defense of Justin and company, it's about Ayla. YOU NEED HELP, GOT IT?
DeleteSo what have I done TO AYLA? I have bashed Trista and everyone else, but never said one bad thing about AYLA. Tell me what I have said/done. Tell me exactly what I've been dishonest about? Please do.
DeleteYou're kidding right LIES? Come on, if the deleted threads and posts were still here then it would be clear what you did. You know what you did and you know you are not sincere in helping to find Ayla. Your insincerity and coldness to a baby is inexcusable.
DeleteYou can answer the question(s) or not. If what I did to AYLA was so horrible, you should be able to answer.
DeleteSeekingTruth - your name matters none. What does matter is keeping Ayla's name out there. Let people make fools of themselves by averting there attention elsewhere. Their interest lies only in being right, not in being appropriate. They say its inappropriate that you besmirch Ayla's name but those claiming that haven't taken a really good look at their own behaviour.
DeleteYou know the answer. You know how insincere you are.
DeleteWhat you did was worse than HORRIBLE.
Control Freak!
DeleteThe law is the law and people should be mindful of their passions.
DeleteI have not seen admin bash Ayla and their are many pro Trista pro Justin sites to hang around and exchange small talk.
This site (STL) and the other blog (J4A) are for discussions aimed at getting to the bottom of a very complex situation.
@AnonymousMar 6, 2012 11:02 PM
Bloodhounds and expert handlers are required to find Ayla IMO.
This thread really makes it evident to me and others that any one who speaks against the "Justin is guilty" theory seems to "lose credibility." it's funny how that works. Seeking truth, you agree with some things trista says and get praise but god forbid your allegiance sways you all of the sudden become a sicko! Why are the "trista supporters" so defensive? It really does MAKE SENSE...
DeleteWhat did ST do to Ayla? I see what others have done to her the very people who come on these pages "for her" only to say she is dead. How that is for Ayla I will never understand. What they think they are doing I will never get. The only people who can possibly help Ayla are the ones who believe she is out there and continue to look for her and encourage others to do the same. And as for ST I have never at least heard him/her say Ayla was not out there somewhere. So again I ask what did ST do to her. Now ask yourself what did you do to her.
Deletehttp://justiceforayla.blogspot.com/2012/03/damned-if-i-do-damned-if-i-dont.html
ReplyDeleteEveryone please read this post. Thanks
And when you get through reading that, read the Comments on the SA site-Junk Science, Jose Baez, and Baby Ayla
DeleteJusticeforAyla is asking how to find the IP address of commenters.
JusticeforAyla can't advocate for exposing someone after that person said how immoral it was to out them....but they can send an e-mail to Peter with a list of names who may be the JSTL blogger (LOL).
I actually went to the site because of the commentor here that was going to tell Peter about John P.. Be sure and read his comments also.
This is really getting out of hand, in my opinion, of course.
I suppose the next thing we'll hear, is ST, and all of us anon posters, are from Maine. LOL
This is "just my opinion"!
Anon 108 - I saw all that also... bizarre (IMO)
DeleteWhat's wrong with being from Maine? I am but I'm not related to either party in this case. I don't have an opinion other than that I think the whole situation is fucked up and I believe Justin or someone else that was in the house that night, knows something.
DeleteOf Justin buying the life insurance policy?
ReplyDeleteIt's an unusally high amount for a policy on a baby, especially for someone unemployed. The agent is the son of one of Justin's chief supporters, someone who took Justin in as a houseguest and who also placed her son in the DiPietro home on Dec. 16, writing in facebook that her son had seen Ayla that day. Too many coincidences, but it doesn't sound like a very likely murder for profit plot either. If it was, and I think that is a pretty big leap, maybe Justin thought his friendship with his agent could facilitate a claim.
Of Trista filing for custody right before Ayla went missing?
I think Trista filed because Justin wasn't letting her see or speak to Ayla. No way of knowing at this point if Justin found out, but if he did, her intent to file might have been the impetus to go ahead with the abduction story. Ayla may already have come to harm. I'd like to hear from those who say they saw Ayla on the 16th or days leading up to the 16th.
Of Courtney's sister being busted for drugs?
The bust was a result of neighbors' complaints of drug trafficking at the residence. No way Courtney and Justin were unaware.
Of Lance DiPietro beating up Justin Linnell?
Shows the mindset of the DiPietros. Remember Phoebe's first reaction to learning that Ayla was missing was to say she thought Justin would gather his friends and start kicking in doors.
Of the blood evidence being released, but police declining to say the amount?
Nancy Grace producers and at least one local paper have quoted "unnamed" LE sources as saying there was evidence of a clean up. That's not been confirmed. I think it's likely true. There is probably not enough blood to prove a homicide occurred. LE knows something happened, but don't know who did what because the family is stonewalling.
Eve- That seems right on target.
DeleteWhat's the Importance...
ReplyDeleteOf Justin buying the life insurance policy?
A] Responsible parent making adult choices. And to clarify, what has been shown was that he didn't buy a policy specifically to cover her, he added her to a new policy or an updated one. That kind of lets the wind out of the Justin's a murderer theory.
Of Trista filing for custody right before Ayla went missing?
A] Justin made some kind of remark or indication he may seek full time sole custody or viewed Trista as a bad parent/high risk, bad environment, etc, so she got scared and decided to move first.
Of Courtney's sister being busted for drugs?
A]Definitely going to screw up her chances of finding a good, stable job in life...and probably make it hard for her in the slammer if she's cute.
Of Lance DiPietro beating up Justin Linnell?
A] People with impulse control getting caught up in the drama, tensions and emotions escalating, get in fight. More prone to it if anybody's boozed up or otherwise intoxicated. Happens every weekend in any given bar. Maybe he just got fed up and one got too mouthy.
Of the blood evidence being released, but police declining to say the amount?
A1] Police aren't obliged to inform the media or the public details of an investigation so if they don't share, oh well.
A2] Probably nothing they can work with because if it was, they could use it in lieu of a body and call it de facto homicide and arrest everyone in the house as complicit. That they don't looks more like it wasn't a substantial amount to suggest foul play or any relevant injury. That they also report "some" of it was hers kind of point blank suggests somebody else was bleeding too, so who knows what kind of scenario brought that about. I don't see them looking for a second dead body...it'd be that relevant.
I'd like to point this out since it's come up in just about every post/comments.
ReplyDeleteFor Trista to get welfare, at all, IF she provided a father's identity at all, if he was always on the birth certificate, that will be proven before the state would let him do anything. Once paternity is established, and not just off a birth certificate, he's getting a test, then he's legally, automatically *equal* parent.
That means he has as much right to the child at his sole discretion any time he wants it and nobody can say anything. Trista can get as mad as she wants but she has zero legal grounds to stop him. There is automatic equal custody. Before paternity is lawfully established, Justin couldn't do squat, so she wouldn't have to file, she automatically already has sole custody in every state in the US.
So, she *files* for sole custody and that is a *reaction* to something - and in most cases, it's to keep the other parent from having any control in the matter. Don't kid yourself about it's in the kid's interest - it's always really about taking control away from the other parent.
Trista handed off Ayla to begin with. Only when Justin seemed to step up and make a more concerted effort to keep her did the custody thing come up...something happened that didn't have anything to do with any abuse that motivated Trista to try to get sole custody and there's nothing left but the option that Justin was intending on keeping the child he just stepped up to take care of.
Unless the whole family is psycho and wanted her for some nefarious purpose and it's a dark twisted thing that hasn't come out yet, there's not a shred of evidence this child met foul play or that Justin did anything to her or anyone in the house did.
The state isn't going to facilitate without legal ground. Justin obviously had it and seemed to have the upper hand over Trista...and it looks like her actions were retaliatory.
So far, I think there's more to her story than anyone seems to have dug up so far.
I have to disagree. Trista filed for custody because Justin wouldn't let her see or talk to Ayla (her rights).
DeleteLaw Enforcement HAS said that Ayla met foul play in the Dip house.
Stacey, of course it's not always about power struggles. Sometimes a parent abuses a child and the other parent files to protect, not to gain power. Some parents ideally want both parents involved but can see it's not working because the other parent is out of control, hurting the child, sexually abusing the child or whatever.
DeleteAs for the Ayla situation, Trista was not trying to exclude Justin from having access to Ayla with her filing. She was seeking to have a custodial determination made because he was preventing her from access to Ayla in person and by phone.
And yet Trista went to Justin's house for a visit. He went out of his way to make it possible for her to be able to see Ayla at his home because Trista had no home at the time to take Ayla to. And also contradictory to Anon 8:01 post Trista did speak with Ayla. All you have to do is look back at all of Trista's interviews to see how she often contradicts herself. It seems to be a common pattern for her. And kidnapping is foul play. Look it up. And if you want ask LE. When they changed the terms of the investigation to foul play it was because they had determined that Ayla had not walked out of the home herself. And that now meant "foul play" had occurred. That absolutely does not mean it is automatically assumed she is dead. Again feel free to research that.
DeleteDidn't Trista say outright that she filed for custody because Justin was going to?
DeleteAutumn Flutters said "Blood evidence (partially) cleaned up: I found this shocking when I first heard it, but find it more and more confusing as time goes by with no further word about it from LE (how long it was there, how much, etc). I have wondered why no one in the family has related how it got there. I have also wondered about LE's statement that Justin quickly left the room when shown the blood evidence... does that mean he knows what happened and can't face it? or does that mean they showed him something he knew nothing about and it freaked him out? Or?"
ReplyDeleteAutumn, the DiPietros can't dare speak out on this because they aren't sure what LE has. Apparently they tried to clean up blood and didn't fool LE. IF this is an accurate report, they don't know exactly how much blood LE detected or what LE can deduce from the blood. If they tell a story now, they're likely to have it come back to haunt them. The fact that they haven't spoken a simple truth (like Ayla got a bad nosebleed just before Thanksgiving, or Ayla stepped on a nail the week before she disppeared) says volumes. If there was a simple truth, reporting it wouldn't hurt anyone and it would be corroborated by the police investigation. People who don't dare to speak out generally have something to hide. They are the ones who have to worry whether the lie they tell will be outed by physical evidence.
That sounds logical, anon. I just wonder if he's lying about a lot of this, why didn't he just make up another lie on the spot instead of running off without saying anything? It has been suggested that he was absent from the home a lot, and left Ayla to the care of the females, could something have happened to her when he wasn't there? Though I would think he would have found out by now and the info relayed to LE - perhaps it has been and we haven't heard. If still nothing has been said to LE to explain the blood or his reaction to it that is very highly suspicious.
DeleteWhere'd all the comments go? Ones without full names AND ones that didn't even have anything to do with the suspected person? CAS's comment is left with a full first name.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 7:54 and Eve both made very good points about the timing of the so-called "abduction". Instead of pointing the finger at Trista and asking why she filed for custody right before Ayla went missing, a better question is Why was Ayla reported "missing" right after Trista filed for custody?
ReplyDeleteTrista filed for custody because the dips wouldn't let her see Ayla. How long was the baby missing before they cooked up their abduction fantasy and reported it???
Don't forget that mama dip lied about being home the night "the abduction" supposedly happened. An innocent person wouldn't.
You also cannot forget that both TRISTA and LE have said that Justin DID NOT KNOW about the custody filing.
DeleteSo you really cannot reverse this particular point to Justin, and say why did he do it "after." He didn't know about it.
Is Trista lying about Justin knowing? The only way you can assert that Justin had any knowledge of the filing is to call Trista and the police liars. Period.
In an interview Trista said that she didn't want Justin to know that she was filing. Impossible. You have to serve the other party before you can file.
DeleteI don't think Trista is lying, but perhaps she didn't keep it all to herself either. If she told a friend or a relative who told someone who told someone else, etc., word could have gotten back to Justin. I'm not saying that's what happened because I don't know, but when everyone is armed with a cell phone, I don't think it's impossible. Justin would have little to gain by admitting he got a heads up.
DeleteFor all we know, Trista might have told Justin she'd go to court if he continued to block her efforts to see or speak to Ayla. As we don't know when Ayla was last seen by someone other than the dips, we have no way of knowing when she actually "went missing". If she was already gone at that point, and if he really didn't know she'd be filing that day, it might have been pure coincidence that the filing and the "abduction" report both happened so close together.
Deleteanon 10:29 The other person is served papers after you file, and it's not usually done the same day.
DeleteAnon 446 -it sounds weird, i know. You have to fill out the paperwork and serve them on the other person before filing them under Maine law. I guess its to prevent blindsiding.
DeleteReally, that is weird. I did think it might be different by state as I was typing that! LOL
DeleteThanks.
In some states, you cannot serve the other person yourself. You can't even hire a private server, it has to go through the proper channels--like a constable or sheriff.
DeleteThis happens after you file court papers and then pay the fee to have them served.
Is Trista lying about Justin knowing? where have you been?
ReplyDelete.......................................................
Trista is INCAPABLE OF LYING!
get with the program, ST! ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OT: Does anyone have the full description of Ayla that was posted on her home site in the past? It seems to have changed? Here is a snapshot from google, I would love to see the rest of this description but it appears to have been edited and no longer exists.
Who would describe a 20 month old baby as a 'mother hubbard'??? This is the weirdest thing I've stumbled onto yet and that's saying something poor Ayla! Did your family really envision you as 'mother hubbard'?? I AM LOST ON THIS!!
Mother Hubbard had no food in her cupboard, that's really ALL I know about her and I can't for the life of me imagine how that character would apply to Ayla. If anyone has any light to shed on this, TIA!
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dhgxf9&s=5
Rolling. On. The. Floor. Laughing. My. Ass. Off.
DeleteShe's a Mother Hubbard? WTF
Old Mother Hubbard
Went to the cupboard
To get her poor doggie a bone,
When she got there
The cupboard was bare
So the poor little doggie had none.
It also says she's a "ham"
DeleteHam *urban dictionary*
An insult that has same meaning as "loser"
You are such a Ham!
mother hubbard comments.
DeleteThese comments are too funny!! Especially anon 2:51
Thanks for a good laugh!
who wrote the 'Mother Hubbard' description?
Deleteit is telling because it depicts a role reversal where Ayla is the parent, (with no resources available) and thus, Trista is the child who needed looking after!
having addicts for parents mean the child must assume responsibilities at an earlier age than should be, (ruined childhoods). Peeter has a long article about it, a very interesting read!
describing a 22 month old baby girl as "Mother Hubbard" is truly whacky.